This series is a project in which Hagiwara (who runs with him in #WednesdayBudouzakaRen) listens to the stories of two people who have created milestone items (founder Nishioka) and used them (mid-career hire Yoshida) and delves into them.

What did you think of the last article about headlamps? I wonder if it was okay to talk about the disadvantages of incandescent light (lol), but I hope you've learned that there are even more advantages to it.

Now, let's talk about hats. Nishioka is sometimes teased by people calling him a hat maker (laughs). Oh, I'm definitely not that person (seriously). That just goes to show how many people you see wearing them. So let's dig deeper into the secret of his popularity.

It all started with collaboration


Nishioka (N): Yoshida-kun used to tease me a lot (laughs).

Yoshida (hereinafter Y): I wasn't messing around! I was just kidding. (laughs)

N: The reason I started making hats in the first place was because of MSC-001.

Y: A hat!

N: Steve from Six Moon Design still wears this and loves it. He bought two (laughs) and still wears them. He seems to really like them, and if you search for pictures of him, you'll see that he's wearing them all the time. This is how it all started. It's even called 001.

Y: The product numbers start from 001, right?

N: Actually, clef is a hat manufacturer in Osaka that makes our hats. So, basically, our hats are made in the shape of clef, but with milestone specifications in terms of color and material. This MSC-001 is a joint name with clef.

Y: It also has clef's tag on it.

N: It all started as a collaboration. We stuck our headlamp on the front of the hat and hung it up. We thought, "This could work." You don't need a belt. You don't have to worry about it coming off. That's how it all started.

Y: I didn't know that.

N: I think I made this the year after I started milestone in 2014. I had the opportunity to meet and have dinner with Tomita-san, the CEO of clef, for the first time. On the way to the second bar, we were talking about how we both wear things on our heads, so we decided to do something together.

Y: We hit it off quickly (laughs).

N: We planned it ourselves, took photos of each other and modeled for each other. It felt like we were trying to do the same thing. We then had hat 002, and then moved on to caps with 003. This one also has a headlamp that can be inserted, but it wasn't really into trail running yet, it was more of a casual camping thing. At the time, we hadn't even set up a stall at an event. They took us to GO OUT CAMP and said "Why don't you do it there?", so we rented some space and had one table. They had headlamps and hats lined up. They were originally sold as a set. Each was 4,500 yen, and the set was about 5,300 yen.

Y: The set is cheap! I don't understand how the pricing works (laughs).

N: We were both doing it online, without wholesale. After that, we started doing all sorts of things, like camouflage, mesh on the sides, adding strings, etc.

At the time, it was still a double-name hat with a clef tag attached. Then one day, a customer told me that the hat itself looked cool and that they wanted to buy it even without the light hole gimmick. So I thought, why not give it a try? If we're going to do it, I want to release a hat as a milestone. But clef isn't an OEM company, after all. If they were going to do it, they'd only do it with a double name. They wanted to spread their own brand, too. That's what I was saying, but they said they'd do it as a special favor just for us.

Y: Is it just us?

N: Yes. Only ours. We asked them not to include the embossed clef logo on the inside of the hat, and that's how we ended up with 008 and 009.

The response was quite good. Later, I came across this crisp material at clef's office and fell in love at first sight with the texture of the fabric, which was strong enough to stand on its own. There's a wire in the brim, so I wanted to put a message on the back, and I boldly wrote "LIGHTING YOUR WAY," which turned out to be a much better choice than I expected. That's how the first two colors of 010 came about: mustard brown and blue-gray.

Y: It's still being performed today. The first batch of songs are super long-selling.

N: There weren't swatches (fabric lists) in the milestone office like there are now, so we would go to clef's office and say, "Okay, let's create something great today," and then we'd decide on the design. We'd wonder how many we could make.

Y: That's a rare style. You plan things after visiting the other person's office (laughs).

N: I kept trying to decide the mesh color, the thread to use, and the logo to put in here.

At first, it didn't even have the "81" tag. It's been updated so much that you can barely tell. The current model is probably around 4.0.

I have become good friends with Tomita-senpai both in my personal and professional life, and he is a great senior who goes skiing and snowboarding with me and gives me lots of advice. It was actually Tomita-san who told me, "You should make a new logo," because if we keep doing the same thing, everyone will get bored.

Y: It's the one-point logo of "M" and "S." There are several different patterns for the current hat, so I've listed the differences. (See photo)

N: It's easy to understand. The slightly wider brim and deeper design to suit Japanese heads are also clef's style, so I think it's popular with people who have trouble choosing a hat because of their head size. Some people become repeat customers after wearing it once.

Y: I used to work for a general apparel manufacturer, so I understand, but having such a high sales ratio for hats goes against theory (laughs). I think it's crazy.

N: I think that the reason milestone is able to do what it does today is because of the hats, and they play a very important role. It's all thanks to clef.

Y: That's true.

The age of social media

N: When I see posts of people running on social media, there's always at least one person wearing one. The shop staff also say, "I often see hats on the mountain." It doesn't matter what age or gender it is, even Yoshi's (Yoshida) son wears one. My son never wears one though (laughs).

Y: (bitter smile)

N: Hats are a form of advertising, like famous athletes wearing ones with sponsor names on them. But in our case, everyone wears them of their own accord, so I'm grateful.

Y: Headlamps are only useful at night. And it's hard to tell what brand they are.

N: It's incandescent so I know it's my lamp (laughs).

Y: I feel like hats are a good fit for the age of social media.

N: Speaking of social media, I think @sayaxx_x, who also models for our catalog, has an incredible influence. She has a lot of followers, and her fellow runners wear her hats. I feel really lucky to have met someone like that. I'm hoping to take some good photos that will help promote her, so I'll ask her to let me take some photos when I go to Tokyo. It's not a win-win for either of us, but I think it's more of a win-win for me (laughs). It's a relationship I'm grateful for and want to cherish. Seriously. I don't think there's anyone like that.

Y: That's true. How did you first meet?

N: When we had a booth at the trail running event "TRAIL OPEN AIR DEMO" held in Ome City, she brought about six friends. When she saw the hat, she said "This is cute." She then said "I'll buy one too," and bought one with her friends. Then @sayaxx_x said "I introduced it to six people, can you give me one for free?" (lol). But after the event, when I checked her social media, I thought "Wow, this person is amazing." She saw a post saying she was wearing our hat, and then she started ordering that color only. I was surprised at how much of a reaction there was (lol).

Y: You are truly an influencer.

N: Really. I see a crazy side of him on social media, but I think he's actually someone who thinks a lot before he acts.

Y: Do you feel like your hair has grown since @sayaxx_x started wearing it?

N: It's grown. It's really grown.

Y: It's amazing that you can feel that with your own skin. You have fans not only of trail running but also of road running.

N: If I had just met him there and let it go, things wouldn't have turned out like this, so I'm glad I contacted him. He still wears it often. I always think that it's rare to meet at 5am and do a shoot in a T-shirt and shorts. He didn't even complain about the next shoot for Natty Shorts 2.0 or the new T-shirt. I'm really happy and grateful.

Y: You've met a great person.

N: Really, really. I'm looking forward to this year's new catalogue, which will feature new face Kazu-san.

Y: Shiitake-ya and Man-chan. I think it was around the end of March. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished catalog.

To be continued in the second part