Commitment to manufacturing

N: I'm looking forward to the next Yoshi project. I wonder if the sample will be out soon. It's the first project I've worked on since joining the company.

Y: I asked if it was time to prepare a new hat color, and they said, "Okay, let's do it."

N: I've done it all up until now. I mean, I have my own favorite style, but I thought it would be great if Yoshi could create something with a completely different sensibility.

Y: I don't know if it will be commercialized though (laughs).

N: I want people to feel the joy of having something they've created released to the world and accepted.

Y: The opposite is also true (laughs). There's a chance that it won't sell at all. People will probably think, "Huh? Was this designed by someone else?" because the taste is different.

N: I think that's good too. On the other hand, it would be nice if it could be accepted by people with different tastes. There are curveballs, right? If you keep throwing straight balls, the batter will get bored. So this time I asked Yoshi to help out. I thought it would be great if we could keep doing what we each do well and create even better things. New things other than hats too.

Y: After I joined Milestone, I realized that Nishioka-san is always thinking about whether a product is good enough until the very end. He changes things even when the factory says, "Don't change it now." (laughs)

N: Maybe (laughs)

Y: He's the kind of person who can change things without hesitation, in a good way, by saying, "I think this is better after all." When I first came up with the name for the Utility bag I released the other day, I was going to call it a multi-purpose bag that can fit a backpack, can be used for hot springs, and can be used for multiple purposes, but when he asked me, "How about a Utility Bag?" I thought to myself, "I've changed it!" (laughs) But it felt more natural and was good.

N: I think about it until the very end, but if other people think that it's better, then I'll definitely go with that.

Y: He really listens and is very open-minded. He's the kind of person who can openly say, "Isn't this good?" without regard for how much preparation someone else has done.

N: I want to make good things, so I hope it will be like that, even though it might be a nuisance.

Y: People like that are rare, and I've only met a few so far, but I feel like most of them produce good, creative work.

N: I see. I'm not good at analysis, so I guess that makes sense (laughs).

Y: I think that kind of thing really resonates with the customers who use them. There was one at the very end of the Onion Hoodie, but that's a story for another time (laughs). I think that's what he does with his hats, even though he doesn't realize it.

N: When something doesn't feel right to me, I think there's something wrong, so I want to cherish that feeling.

Y: I've only recently come to understand this. Nishioka-san still isn't completely satisfied with this. I'll let it go for a while longer. I think I'll stop when I'm 80% satisfied (laughs) until the time is right.

N: (laughs)

Timing and connection

N: I think it was good that there was a hat at the time when we shifted from camping to trail running.

Y: It was really good timing.

N: If we didn't make hats, we might have missed the boat. We made headlamps, so we had clients, and it was easy to get in by saying, "We also make these kinds of hats." If milestone had been a hat or apparel manufacturer from the start, I don't think we would have been able to build the relationships we have today. I think it's because we had the trust of being a headlamp manufacturer that we were able to be accepted by everyone.

Y: Did you originally want to work in apparel?

N: Not at all.

Y: It started to spread from the hat one after another.

N: Next up is probably T-shirts. We've done socks, natty shorts, and onion hoodies, and it's really fun. It's not something you can do even if you want to, and it's not easy. And even if you did, I don't think the stores would accept it, usually. Who wants a wind shell made by a light manufacturer? (laughs). But Yoshi and the other members of the Wednesday Budozaka training team really give their opinions, and I think that's why it's been accepted by runners. I couldn't have done it on my own, so I'm really grateful, and I hope to continue hearing everyone's opinions in the future. When I first met Yoshi, he said at Budozaka, "I don't really want to do anything sales-wise for milestone!", but now I feel like everyone is understanding and supportive.

Y: We talked about that at the beginning. When I was still working at my previous job. So I said, "Why not hire me? I'll become the sales manager at milestone!" And it turned out to be true (laughs).

N: That's true (laughs). The new store will be completed in the spring, so we need to do our best.

But, going back to the topic at hand, what was it about the hat that so many people liked? Was it the original shape, the influence of influencers, the color, the functionality, or the price? I honestly don't know (laughs).

Y: The names are good too, like Canary Yellow.

N: Like Ebony Black. I've had people at the bar say the names are great. Like Pistachio, Cabernet, Latte. They're neutral colors, so I wanted to make them as easy to imagine as possible.

Y: It certainly makes you feel more attached to it that way.

N: Of the hats we've made up until now, there was one that we discontinued. Now that I think about it, there was no need to discontinue it, but it was MSC-010 "Phoenix Red."

There are still some people who join me in the big races, but that's the only one.

It's not that we didn't release it at all, but we made quite a lot at the time, and then we got worried because it wasn't selling well. And then we discontinued it. I think that was the last time we released "LIGHTING YOUR WAY." Red resonates with some people, but maybe it was a little too strong. So we're releasing red exclusively in our new store. We've changed the color scheme, though. We wanted to make something that would let people know that they bought it from our store.

Y: It's a limited edition souvenir.

N: We're releasing two types of hats, one of which is a red one that was once discontinued.

Y: So it's coming back. Like a phoenix. (laughs)

Finally, could you tell me the origin of the number "81" on the back of your hat?

N: I always say that the origin of "81" is a question on the Milestone Level 2 Certification Examination.

Y: What is that?!

N: It's long, so maybe next time (laughs).

Y: I understand (laughs)

Once again, he shared a lot of stories that you probably wouldn't hear anywhere else. I wanted to find out the secret behind the popularity of hats, but the biggest reason is that it's impossible to narrow it down to one reason. You could also say that there are many reasons to wear them.

Rather than just being designed by Nishioka, I got the sense that he was "making things in total" with attention to detail. Now that Yoshida has joined the team, I'm excited to see what happens next. Information about new products was also leaked during the conversation. So, while I think about the answers to the Level 2 questions, please look forward to the next episode.

Text and composition: Ken Hagiwara